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Incest?
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Yeah, let's just issue warnings about every minor trope that someone with misguided morals might not like. Why am I not surprised to hear this suggestion from the same person who promoted censorship a few weeks ago. Sometimes I have a hard time believing these people are serious.
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@renofury That doesn’t answer how you choose when something is incestuous and labeling it as sexual content would be false advertisement most of the time.
And parent should either do real research on what they children like or have some faith in them, children are far from shock by most of what parent deem as such.Do you like death, war and misery ?
Do you like badass op loli who let nobody got in their way ?
Do you like vengeance story?
If so then then vote for The girl who ate a death god -
@raitoiro, I had answered as a joke because I didn't think worth to delve more on the topic. However to give a proper answer there are several rating systems and some publisher develop their own when their is no rating board. In one particular example it is done in categories and colours scales, Their are categories for violence, sexual content, bad language, drugs, etc. For instance a low violence title could be marked yellow or green in violence but red in bad language. If further explanation is needed it is written in a bracket under the category name. So for incest it could be displayed in orange inside the sexual content category and with a brackets informing it has an incest theme. Simple to understand and with a small footprint.
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If I recall correctly, 18+ light novels are already a thing and labeled as such
Personally I find stories that focus on incest icky,(so I tend to avoid them) but that isn't the same a brocon/siscon 'crushes' or stories that have a forbidden attraction as a dramatic (or even a comedic) element in a story that isn't about that.If we labeled everything (in Japanese light novels/manga/anime) that was unacceptable under USA ratings to those under 14 - there wouldn't be much left. What I allow my kids to read is a different set of books than what I read. Generally if the librarian at her school thought it was ok to have on the shelf, and a quick google search doesn't have ecchi tags all over it - good to go, I don't need publishers putting labels on stuff, other than what was put on in Japan (they initially published the work with that labeling in mind )
as a parent, I view stories with elements that are drastically culturally different as teaching moments.
Things that are MUCH more common in LN's vs. Western works (at least from what I recall):-
teenagers having/buying/ 'using' dirty magazines or games ( a common trope, why/where a teenage boy hides his treasures,why mom must knock before entering, why he needs to 'clean his room' before entertaining guests ...)
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brocon/siscon attraction (99% of the time one sided and never acted on, usually a joke)
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references to masturbation
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formal love confessions
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teachers/students in love
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the wide range of acts between teenagers (usually high school aged) holding hands is often a big deal, kissing is often a big deal, so is being a virgin? how both could be true in the same story? but it seems to be a thing
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@jon-mitchell Another thing to note about this whole issue is how much parents think about what's acceptable hadschanged for the past 20 years or so. I remember reading Lois Duncan in elementary school and Stephen King in middle school. While I'm personal fine with my child doing the same, I know there are parents of her schoolmates believing their children are too young to read some of these materials.
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@renofury
If it was a joke then Wooosh on me ^^That system would work for drugs, violence, hate,... i think we have a similar system for video game in europe, but it near totaly useless.
The problem i had tho, was more on how to categorise what's consider incest, because most of the time what we would consider as such is either not really incest or legal. Like most of the time in harem comedy the little sister isn't even in the run for the MC's D, a lot of the time they're not related by blood and sometime it's legal incest.
Same for at which point you consider that a story is incestuous, because if we choose that at the slightest bit of brocon/siscon, cousin,...
make a serie incestuous then something like So, I'm spider so what? is incestuous, same for Medaka box, one punch man, attack on titan, The faraway paladin, Ascendance of a bookworm, ... when most people would never consider them as such. -
@renofury
If it was a joke then Wooosh on me ^^That system would work for drugs, violence, hate,... i think we have a similar system for video game in europe, but it near totaly useless.
The problem i had tho, was more on how to categorise what's consider incest, because most of the time what we would consider as such is either not really incest or legal. Like most of the time in harem comedy the little sister isn't even in the run for the MC's D, a lot of the time they're not related by blood and sometime it's legal incest.
Same for at which point you consider that a story is incestuous, because if we choose that at the slightest bit of brocon/siscon, cousin,...
make a serie incestuous then something like So, I'm spider so what? is incestuous, same for Medaka box, one punch man, attack on titan, The faraway paladin, Ascendance of a bookworm, ... when most people would never consider them as such.Yep. Little sister's infatuation is a major ongoing plot point in My Big Sister Lives in a Fantasy World / neechuu, but only a rabid extremist would tag it as "incest."
Actual incest isn't something I look for in LNs, but the sister in neechu is amusing rather than creepy.
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Doing just the basic research should tell you if a story has any "questionable" material. I am fine if a story has incest (GoT would not be the same without it), but are some things that should be expected. Like messed up children and how society views it (something GoT addresses). I don't really count sex between cousins as incest, one reason is you don't get messed up babies (witch is also why most countries say its legal).
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@drone205 Marriage between cousin does make messed up childrens, at least if it's repeat for a number of generation, Darwin is a common exemple he married his cousin and both of them were the result of marriage between cousin and it affected them and they're childrens.
It has to be at least third degree cousin for it to not be a problem, and 3 degree is in fact the perfect distance to minimised problem from inbreeding depression (incest) and outbreeding depression (problem which occur when you have children with people too different).Do you like death, war and misery ?
Do you like badass op loli who let nobody got in their way ?
Do you like vengeance story?
If so then then vote for The girl who ate a death god -
IIRC in most if not all of the USA marriage between 2nd cousins (share a pair of great grandparents but no other blood relatives as direct ancestors) is legal, but very uncommon. (I'm not a geneticist, but the amount of genetic diversity is pretty high when 6 of 8 or 75% of your ancestors are not common) And legally, if not culturally, relations by adoption or remarriage fall under 'incest' (and are illegal, but this varies somewhat by state). From how I see it, the moral/ethical issue with incest isn't only the genetics/possibility of deformed children etc. It has to do with the power dynamic between the individuals and the concept of informed consent. Can an 18 year old stepchild really give consent to their 'parent' when for a time he/she had authority over them? (even if not related by blood)? I believe in at least 99/100 cases, no.
So, Domestic Girlfriend, has an incestuous relationship at its core (the couple are stepbrother/stepsister when they consummate their relationship, but apparently fell in love before the respective parents wed, and before the characters in question were aware that their respective parents even knew each-other/were dating) By USA law standards, it's incest, but there is enough 'plot armor' that I find this series dramatic and intriguing vs. 'icky'. I found My Little Sister Can Read Kanji to be so cringe inducing that I couldn't get through the first volume.
I read banned books
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@jon-mitchell said in Incest?:
IIRC in most if not all of the USA marriage between 2nd cousins (share a pair of great grandparents but no other blood relatives as direct ancestors) is legal, but very uncommon.
In fact even first cousins would be legal in some state and is legal in most western country.
(I'm not a geneticist, but the amount of genetic diversity is pretty high when 6 of 8 or 75% of your ancestors are not common)
Yeah the risk are likely quite low as long as it don't happen again and again for a number of generations.
And legally, if not culturally, relations by adoption or remarriage fall under 'incest' (and are illegal, but this varies somewhat by state).
In fact not all, i look it up and surprisingly aside from Virginia it's legal everywhere (https://legalbeagle.com/12307129-states-illegal-marry-stepsiblings.html).
Culturally i don't know, wouldn't it be like marrying a childhood friend you've grown with?
Probably depend on what sort of relationship the 2 had, the family, ...From how I see it, the moral/ethical issue with incest isn't only the genetics/possibility of deformed children etc. It has to do with the power dynamic between the individuals and the concept of informed consent.
It's probably mostly the genetic problems consent in relationship is a new thing but incest being bad is a really old custom.
Can an 18 year old stepchild really give consent to their 'parent' when for a time he/she had authority over them? (even if not related by blood)? I believe in at least 99/100 cases, no.
I wouldn't be as absolute, i mean if the step-parent as raise the child for a decade or more okay, but if they have raise the child for 2 year, or not at all, or in some extreme case the step-parent could even be the younger one then do they really have authority. Plus people do marry people who have authority over them quite regularly.
Personaly i don't think a law specificly for step-relative relationship should exist, it should just be judge under the allready existing law for pedophilia or abusive relationship.So, Domestic Girlfriend, has an incestuous relationship at its core (the couple are stepbrother/stepsister when they consummate their relationship, but apparently fell in love before the respective parents wed, and before the characters in question were aware that their respective parents even knew each-other/were dating) By USA law standards, it's incest, but there is enough 'plot armor' that I find this series dramatic and intriguing vs.
It wouldn't qualified as incest, were they living in Virginia it would be illegal but it can't be incest without family bonds.
'icky'. I found My Little Sister Can Read Kanji to be so cringe inducing that I couldn't get through the first volume.
Didn't read it but i would probably agree incest tend to be really cringy.
Do you like death, war and misery ?
Do you like badass op loli who let nobody got in their way ?
Do you like vengeance story?
If so then then vote for The girl who ate a death god -
It's probably mostly the genetic problems, consent in relationship is a new thing but incest being bad is a really old custom
I think relations with family being taboo predates knowledge of the causes of birth defects/ enforcing genetic recessives etc. - I agree that 'consent' is a more recent cultural influence than the taboo, but what I was speaking about is the moral/ethical question. Pregnancy can be prevented but that doesn't make the moral/ethical problem go away. Centuries ago the underlying ethical problem may have been couched in terms of who's property a child (or a woman) is and if they become damaged goods/or can be used to cement relations between families and who gets to decide who marries whom (sometimes this promoted marriage between closer relatives, sometimes the opposite.) These traditions very much informed the morality of the day when the statutes in question were initially enacted. (and before we go down that rabbit-hole- yes lots of laws on the books are out-of-date)
Regardless, I was speaking of my own tolerances, and what I find icky, or not enjoyable to read. Informed consent is (to me) the main issue. Who is being taken advantage of? Incestuous relations are often not starting from a place as being between equals and that (to me) is what is cringe inducing.
I read banned books
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@jon-mitchell Personaly I would bet on the genetic consequences rather than cultur or ethic, since incest being frown upon is a global thing regardless of the type of society, the same way cannibalisme is globaly not done outside of special circonstances because of the risk of diseases it brings.
There's an article on that but it's lacking in references: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incest_tabooBut yeah, i understand why incest can be cringy, i also don't like most story with it at the center but more because it feel like a really stupid thing to do.
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Don't really read much which gives room for interpretation along these lines, wrong genre for me, but have seen a few anime which would fall to question. There are the obvious like Oreimo which I found interesting till it went too far, but most simply hint at a strong bond or no blood relation. I think most of the problems which the general population has with the issue, referring only to books or television shows, is coming from their own inferred idea of a relationship rather than just friends/acquaintances. People are fast to jump to conclusions that more is happening than is being read/watched just based on a close friendship. For example, even though nothing beyond friendship has ever happened in Love Live (unless you read fan fiction/doujinshi) I've seen references to the series being yuri. This isn't to say that series which actually cross the line don't exist, but rather that people tend to try to read more into the material than is actually there.
In a different context, although the beach episode is a common trope, sometimes you just want to go to the beach. Don't get me wrong on this one, A LOT of shows use this trope for a chance to add ecchi tones without really crossing the line. However, although less commonly used in this format, it's just about getting away for a vacation/break away from the normal hum-drum. If you're looking for an instance of this, Himouto immediately comes to mind, and for what it's worth, is even a series about a brother and sister where there is absolutely no physical interest from either of them.
Just being close with family doesn't equate to incest, and I feel that a lot of people want to jump to that conclusion. There are series, some rather popular ones, which do cross that line. However, inferred meaning doesn't equate to reality.
